The Times: Need to know: January 1, 2008

Relieved: USCitizen: So glad you are back. Things were getting to be a bit boring and one-sided with only LondonLad to hold down the fort for RDS.

Outsider: Relieved: Neither Watts, nor vd Veer nor Voser had the good fortune to spend a few years in Cambridge with Lord Madingley of Boots and Coots fame. I think Moody Stuart might have done...

uscitizen: I have not absconded John, just do not have time to waste or breath to waste on folks with a clear biased agenda. Folks who take any data and use it to build their already determined conlcusion. Later - much too busy trying to get my retirement paid for by contractors taking me to lunch twice a year, man these perks are awesome!! Again - get a life.

Relieved: Maybe we ought to start calling RDS and BP management the 'Cambridge Boys Club' or perhaps the 'Cambridge Mafia'. No ?? Just a thought. Anybody else have any ideas, aside from the usual obscenities.

Relieved: It seems reasonable to speculate that if the CEO's of these companies reached a deal on oil prices, then the executive committees of both companies were also involved. Members of their boards of directors may also have been involved. Given that RDS had executives from the US on the exec. committee and on the board I would guess those individuals (retired or not) are also subjects of a wider criminal investigation. Involvement of the US DOJ therefore seems to be inevitable. And who knows, maybe we shall get to the bottom of these 'damnable and viscous lies and rumors' about price fixing. Afterall, RDS management is governed by well established corporate 'business principles' and would never stoop to such conduct. Dream on, my children, dream on. Don't you just love the arrogance of power.

Relieved: LondonLad: While it is true that oil is traded as a commodity on various markets it is also true that the oil companies have been heavy speculators in those markets. That fact has been know for a long time.

LondonLad: The biggest oil price fixers in the UK in order of “fixing” are: 1. UK Government (at a healthy 60%) - FACT 2. New York and London Stock Market traders (non-oil company traders) – FACT 3. Companies that buy up cargo loads of oil and store it offshore for the price to rise then sell at vast profits – FACT 4. Shell, BP, Statoil et. al. – ALLEDGEDLY Lets face it, as with the LIBOR scandal, it takes more than one or two companies to fix the price of a product.

Relieved: LondonLad: Correct me if I am wrong, but I seem to recall RDS having the same problem over price fixing in the Phillipines. In the States this alleged price fixing activity could be prosecuted under Federal conspiracy and Racketeering statutes (i.e., engaging in organized crime), among others. People would/could go to jail for a very, very long time if convicted of such activity.

LondonLad: Interesting to see on the ITV website that they state : “The price of petrol at UK pumps has increased significantly since 2004, but the majority of that is down to tax.” Most people should be aware the biggest thieves with regard to oil price “fixing” are the UK Government – 60% tax at the pump AND that does not include the tax at the wellhead of the North Sea. Cameron et al are hiding nicely behind this tabloid story. REPLY BY JOHN: Musaint, you are bunching ITN, BBC News, Channel4News, Sky News, Bloomberg, Dow Jones, The Telegraph, The Guardian, USA Today, The New York Times etc all under the your "tabloid" banner. Seems rather unfair to me. You are right about UK governments, past and present.

LondonLad: Well here we go again!! Oil price fixing and all the little add-ons and innuendos again by the Donovans. Strongly recommend that it’s best to read some of the UK newspapers for a more sensible write up and debate on the oil price fixing. Biggest price fixers? – the London and NY (non-oil company) traders. Why do you have to interweave so many aspects on Shell that you’ve been discussing over the last month or so, most of which are conjecture or alleged? “Royal Dutch Shell was built on price fixing” – bit of a sweeping and unfounded statement I would say. Well “Relieved” I thought you knew all there is to know about Shell as your ingrained negativeness must be based on knowledge of the company, i.e. its Business Principles. Clearly not. REPLY BY JOHN: Hello Musaint, I can recommend some reading material to you so you know the facts. Start off with A HISTORY OF ROYAL DUTCH SHELL, volumes 1, 2 & 3. This vast work was written by eminent historians paid by Shell. When you have read it all, as I have, let me know and I will direct you to further credible, verifiable, reference source information providing more proof confirming what I have stated. The whole evil enterprise was built on price-fixing.