The New York Times: Transcript: Third G.O.P. Debate

The following is a transcript of the 2008 Republican presidential candidates debate hosted by CNN, WMUR-TV and The New Hampshire Union Leader. The participants were Senator Sam Brownback, the former Virginia Gov. James Gilmore, the former New York City mayor Rudy Giuliani, Rep. Duncan Hunter, the former Arkansas Gov. Mike Huckabee, Sen. John McCain, Rep. Ron Paul, the former Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney, Rep. Tom Tancredo, and the former Wisconsin Gov. Tommy Thompson and the moderator was Wolf Blitzer.

EXTRACT FROM TRANSCRIPT RELATING TO THE PRICE OF GASOLINE

MR. FAHEY: Mayor Giuliani, sea levels around the world are rising. Average temperatures are increasing. A U.N. report written by scientists from 113 countries recently said that climate change is very likely man-made and may affect us for centuries to come.

Is science wrong on global warming? And what, if any, steps would you take as president to address the issue of climate change?

MR. GIULIANI: I think we have to accept the view that scientists have that there is global warming and that human operation, human condition, contributes to that. And the fact is that there is a way to deal with it and to address it in a way that we can also accomplish energy independence, which we need as a matter of national security.

It’s frustrating and really dangerous for us to see money going to our enemies because we have to buy oil from certain countries. We should be supporting all the alternatives. We need a project similar to putting a man on the moon. That project started with Eisenhower. It was carried out by Kennedy and then Johnson and then Nixon. And that was two Democrats and two Republicans working — (audio difficulties) — working in the national interest.

MR. BLITZER: Thank you, Mayor.

I want Governor Romney to weigh in as well. There’s a perception, at least among some, that Republicans are — at least the Republican Party — very close to big oil. A lot of Americans are suffering now from the price of gasoline, the high price of gasoline.

What do you say to that — the audience out there who believes that there’s too much of an alliance, if you will, between the big oil companies and Republicans?

MR. ROMNEY: Well, first of all, Rudy Giuliani is right in terms of an Apollo project to get us energy independent, and the effects of that on global warming are positive. It’s a no-regrets policy. It’s a great idea.

Secondly, with regards to big oil, big oil is making a lot of money right now, and I’d like to see them using that money to invest in refineries. Don’t forget that when companies earn profit, that money is supposed to be reinvested in growth. And our refineries are old. Someone said to me — Matt Simons, an investment banker down in Houston, he said our refineries today are rust with paint holding them up. And we need to see these companies, if they’re making that kind of money, reinvest in capital equipment.

But let’s not forget, where the money is being made this year is not just — throughout these years is not just in Exxon and Shell and the major oil companies, it’s in the countries that own this oil. Russia last year took in $500 billion by selling oil. Ahmadinejad, Putin, Chavez — these people are getting rich off of people buying too much oil. And that’s why we have to pursue, as a strategic imperative, energy independence for America. And it takes that Apollo project. It also takes biodiesel, biofuel, ethanol —

MR. BLITZER: Thank you.

MR. ROMNEY: — cellulosic ethanol, nuclear power, more drilling in ANWR. We have to be serious also about efficiency —

MR. BLITZER: Thank you, Governor.

MR. ROMNEY: — and that’s going to allow us to become energy independent.

MR. BLITZER: Senator McCain, do you have a problem at this time with these oil companies making these huge profits?

SEN. MCCAIN: Sure, I think we all do. And they ought to be reinvesting it. And one of the areas that they ought to be involved in is nuclear power. Nuclear power is safe, nuclear power is green — does not green — emit greenhouse gases. Nuclear power is used on Navy ships which have sailed around the world for 60 years without an accident. And of course we ought to be investing in alternate energy sources.

Recently there was a group of retired military officers who said that climate change an energy independence is a national security issue. It is. We’ve got to reduce our dependence on imported oil. We can do it through a wide variety of alternative fuels. But we have to be serious about it, and we’re going to have to go places where we have never gone before. And nuclear power is one of the major issues, but also all kinds of ethanol as well, so.

MR. BLITZER: Thank you. Thank you, Senator.

Let me bring Congressman Paul back into this conversation. In 2005, President Bush signed an energy bill that provided billions of dollars in tax breaks, subsidies to the oil companies with the goal of boosting domestic production at a time of these record profits.

Do you believe these companies need a helping hand from the federal government?

REP. PAUL: I don’t think the profits is the issue. The profits are okay if they’re legitimately earned in a free market.

What I object to are subsidies to big corporations when we subsidize them and give them R&D money. I don’t think that should be that way. They should take it out of the funds that they earn.

But I’m also — you can’t discuss energy without discussing our foreign policy. Why — why do we go to the Middle East? You know that oil is very important about the Middle East and why we’re there. Why did we, our government, help overthrow Mossadeq in 1953? It had to do with oil. So our foreign policy is designed to protect our oil interests. The profits — that’s not the problem. It’s the problem that we succumb to the temptation to protect oil interests by literally going out and fighting wars over oil.

MR. BLITZER: Governor Gilmore, you agree?

MR. GILMORE: I agree that if you make profits in the open marketplace that that’s an appropriate thing to do. I also believe that they should be going in, putting this additional money into additional drilling, into additional exploration, but it’s going to have to be bigger than that. We’re going to have to in fact look to all sources: ethanol, biomass, all coal, clean coal, the opportunities for natural gas, and nuclear power. And by the way, nuclear power will help this whole issue of global warming.

And one more point in direct answer to your question, the Kyoto Treaty was in fact fatally flawed. That was a treaty that in fact was going to basically just transfer money directly to Russia for nothing because they were going to get credits because simply that their economy had declined. The truth is, we’re going to have to get a program in place, an international diplomatic answer that is going to include every nation of the world in this entire project, and that includes China and India. (Applause.)

Published: June 5, 2007

This website and sisters royaldutchshellgroup.com, shellnazihistory.com, royaldutchshell.website, johndonovan.website, and shellnews.net, are owned by John Donovan. There is also a Wikipedia segment.